HIDES AND SIDES This is where we sell
our large cow sides, full hides, and other leathers. We have a separate page
for lightweight leathers (less than 3 oz or under 1/16" or 1.5 mm
thick) We also have a separate
web page for our suede hides. You can get to these using the menu
below. Because we sell excess
leathers from manufacturers of leather goods we never know what to expect
from week to week. Check back often; it
might even be worth book marking this site or going completely overboard
and signing up for our leather crafts newsletter (below). You might also want to
check out our listing of Clearance
Leathers; these are one-of-a-kind hides that we're clearing out of
the barn. If you'd like to be notified
when we add new hides and sides to our leather inventory then just sign
up for our free e-mail newsletter- won't hurt a bit.
Smooth as a Moose Sides Here's a nice side leather
that's been drum dyed a nice, rich, dark brown color that's called Moose
Brown, and we guess that's because when you're
driving back to camp from
the diner in Oquossoc and you head up over Height of Land, scooting down
the backside, with a great view of Mooselukmeguntic Lake over your shoulder,
I mean just look at that
sunset and the trees and the sky that goes on forever and HOLY CROW THERE'S
A MOOSE IN THE ROAD RIGHT THERE and just before your truck
goes airborne over that
cliff you think to yourself, "that moose sure was a nice shade of dark
brown - wish I had some leather like that." Well, here you go.
This is cowhide, not moose
leather, in sides that average 18-19 sq ft of surface area each.
Thickness is dead on 4 oz, or 1/16", which makes this a useful leather
for
all sorts of projects.
Mellow temper, so it's a bit soft, comfy to wear, and can be sewn on most
home machines. Surface is nice and smooth.
The top photo is most accurate
representation of the color - we used more light in the bottom 2 photos
so you could see how smooth the leather is.
Smooth as a Moose
$70 per side, 48-state shipping
included (AK and HI too if you don't mind us folding it)
BLACK GRIZZLY
COW SIDES 7 oz, Waxy Cowhide If you need a leather that's
waterproof, rustic looking, not too soft/not too stiff, blacker than the
inside of a cow, and with the attitude of a Grizzly then here you go.
Black Grizzly Cow sides
(they're not from bears, these hides are from the rare Grizzly Cow, apparently).
7 oz in thickness (that
means 7/64 of an inch, which is just a grizzly hair less than 1/8 of an
inch).
Sides are all over 20 sq
ft in size. This leather has been waxed to help it stay weather resistant.
You can feel the wax with your hand when you rub the leather.
Surface has a natural grain
pattern, and every scratch, bug bite, and bump this cow ever experienced
is still visible. Most sides will also have a brand on them.
These hides are priced at
$75 each, and this, like we always do, includes shipping to any location
in the 48 contiguous United States,
mostly because none of us
here are smart enough to figure out how to figure up actual shipping costs
from us to you.
Antique Walnut Thin Cowhide
Sides Typical cowhide sides, average
19-20 sq ft of surface area
2.5 to 3 oz, Regular Temper
$70 each, 48-state shipping
included
BLACK OIL
SHALE COW SIDES 5/5.5 oz, oiled cowhide Our Black Oil Shale sides
are from a tannery in Argentina. Chromium tanned, oiled to be water
resistant, regular temper, 5 to 5.5 oz in thickness.
Surface feels a bit oily,
so this is great leather for outdoor uses, like sewing a bunch of them
together to cover your hunting buggy
so it's ready to roll when
you finally decide to go over to Fish Eating Creek and look for some of
those wild hogs that hang out over there.
Medium temper leather was
tanned specifically to be made into boots for the wind-in-what's-left-of-your-hair
crowd (Harley Davidson boots).
Large sides run 21 square
feet or larger in total surface area. May have brands or scratches
- this leather was tanned to allow
the natural character of
the leather to be visible - no grain correcting, no putties or goops to
fill in defects - it's natural looking.
Good for boots, straps,
bags that need to hold shape, etc. This is nice leather.
These hides are priced at
$75 each, and this, for our 15th year in a row, includes shipping to any
location in the 48 contiguous United States. Even Fish Eating Creek.
If you need more, we're
selling ten sides for $700, 48-state shipping included.
Qty:
GENUINE
VEGETABLE TANNED HORSE LEATHER STRIPS Perfect for strops, belts,
harnesses Taken from just north of
the butt cheeks (which is where true shell cordovan comes from), these
strips of horse hide are 5 to 6 oz in thickness, and each piece measures
about 2 to 2.5 square feet of total surface area.
Roughly 4.5 feet long and
about as wide as your hand. Vegetable Tanned and soft rolled (compressed
just a bit) to yield an excellent strop leather. Tan color.
Since these come from just
above the butt cheeks (cordovan), we call this North of Cordovan.
Great for making knife sheaths
or tool holders. Long belts also.
North of Cordovan strips,
$30 each, or 3 for $50, or 10 for $150, USA shipping included (even AK
and HI)
Qty
Full
Cowhides, Beautiful Upholstery Leather Several Colors Available Here's a great addition
to the barn here at Brettuns Village Leather - more than one thousand full
cowhides of beautiful upholstery leather.
Full hides average about
50 square feet of surface area, roughly 7 feet by 7.5 feet and are very
soft. Thickness is about 3 oz (under 1/16 of an inch)
so these can be sewn on
most sewing machines. Great for covering chairs or couches or pick
up trucks or 32 foot sport fishing boats or the barbecue grill or a leaky
section of your roof or
your bed (these make great
bedspreads just the way they are) or the parrot's cage or just about anything
else. These are full finish hides, meaning a lot of the color is
on the surface,
although each hide is dyed
all the way through. The tannery added more finish on the surface
to get the final colors right, as these were being used to make expensive
furniture,
aircraft interiors, and
automobile interiors. This lot of hides has been consigned to us
under our corporate
consignment program.
Hides are from well-known
high-end tanneries, such as Spinneybeck and some fine Italian tanners.
We've got 30 gaylord containers
to sift through, so we add more colors to this page as we find them.
These hides are soft enough
to be used to make garments, chaps, or any other soft leather goods.
Pricies are all-inclusive
- no shipping charge added for our customers in the 48 contiguous United
States.
Most of our full hides are
priced at $185 each, 48-state shipping included.
Cat's Eye (light green),
Red, Forest (Forest hides are calf hides averaging 30 sq ft each, soft
nappa cowhide, $165 each)
Blue and Three Shades of
Gray
Dark Taupe Full Hides (dark
gray with a hint of brown)
Birchwood (Tan)
Color
We've also listed some partial
hides of this leather over on the Clearance
page, and as we dig through these hides we'll probably find more to list
over there.
Cowhide Nubuck Sides,
Two Earth Tone Colors These cowhide sides have
been softened by the tannery for use in garments and other items that require
a soft handed leather.
Our nubucks are from USA
cowhides, tanned and finished right here in the USA.
Do you know what suede is?
It's rough or nappy leather, right?
Do you know what smooth
leather is? It's smooth. That's right, we work for NASA.
Do you know what nubuck
is? It's in the middle - not smoothed out, not roughed up like suede.
Nubuck has a nice texture,
not glossy at all, and, again, these are very soft.
We have these in two colors:
Bone and Tan. In the photos above Bone is on the left, Tan on the
right.
Sides run about 20 sq ft
on average, and we have them priced at $70 each, USA shipping included.
Color
All of our hides are inspected
by That Dog prior to shipping. May contain dog hair.
Java Alert Sides Dark brown color looks like
coffee. Sides run 4.5 to 5 oz and average over 20 sq ft.
These hides have brands
in them, and the brands are DEAD CENTER which
means those cowpokes were
drinking on the job again.
Soft, chrome tanned sides
are great for outdoorsy stuff
Java Alert Branded sides,
$70 each, 48-state shipping included
BLACK SNAKE EMBOSSED
COWHIDE SIDES Black cowhide sides are
chrome tanned and dyed all the way through; 4 oz in thickness (1/16 of
an inch thick). Mellow temper (flexible).
These are SECONDS.
Almost all of these have a hole or two somewhere on the hide. We've
priced them accordingly.
Surface is glossy with a
very nice snake skin embossing. The embossing is very well done -
it's so convincing
you can almost see that
little forked tongue sticking out, and sometimes when the traffic outside
is quiet
(don't laugh - one day last
week almost ten cars, well, nine, drove right by corporate headquarters
which may mean it's time to move further upcountry)
you can almost hear this
leather hiss. Available in three sizes, so you can pick just how
much slither you want. Skin crawling yet?
Just wait til you make this
season's long underwear out of this leather, Chester.
Black Snake Sides are priced
per side based on surface area, 48 state shipping included:
Large (over 15 sq ft)
$60
Medium (10-15 sq ft)
$50
Small (8-10 sq ft)
$40
Size
Very Niccssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssse
Except that almost all of
these will have a small hole here or there.
Chocolate Basket Weave
Sides Nice chocolate brown cowhide
sides, about 22 square feet in surface area on average, with a full finish,
corrected grain, and a basket weave pattern imposed on the surface.
Great for upholstery use,
book covers, and even some garments, although these are a little firm for
wearing. Don't make underwear out of this leather, and we mean it.
Not that Charlie tried it
or anything like that, nor did he spend almost an hour screaming in the
Fabulous New Warehouse last week after he put them on.
No way. These are
3 to 3.5 oz, less than 1/16" thick, and can be stitched on most home sewing
machines.
Chocolate Basket Weave Sides
$60 each, 48 state shipping included.
NATURAL
TAN OR IVORY SOLE BENDS
Tanned for Making Leather Floor Tiles! If you're a leather crafter,
when you see cows standing in a field you don't just see gentle animals
contemplating their place in the scheme of things; you see future craft
projects,
and as you size up their
skins, you should know that the 'bend' is a portion of the hide that runs
on either side of the backbone, a little aft of amidships.
Bends are comprised of leather
fibers that are able to be densely packed when subjected to pressure. Look
at your fancy loafers, the ones you bought on sale but they have that
expensive name brand on
them so you're constantly crossing your legs in public places so that the
folks nearby might get a glance at the label on the bottom of those leather
soles -
you know what I mean.
Those leather soles are made from the bend. What we've got right
here are bends that have been compressed to make them incredibly hard -
they were meant to be cut
into floor tiles, believe it or not, but work well for any purpose that
requires a very firm leather. How firm? About like a sheet
of quarter inch plywood.
Desk tops/writing surfaces,
shoe soles, etc. Available in the colors shown, all about 8/9 oz
in thickness (about 1/8"), and averaging about 9 square feet of surface
area
(roughly 2 feet and a couple
of inches wide by 4 feet plus a few inches long). This is expensive
stuff, but we have it priced to move.
The prices shown include
shipping to any location in the 48 contiguous United States, with no extra
charge for the work we put into trying to roll one of these things and
fit it into a 12" square long box.
Sometimes the bends win,
sometimes we win. Jenny keeps score. Natural is a typical light
tan color like you'd see on most veg-tan leathers. Ivory color is
a very light tan or off-white tone.
Natural Tan or Ivory Sole
Bends $65 each
Shipping included for any
location in the 48 contiguous United States
Colors
Printed Suede Hides Printed Cowhide Suede Hides
Nice, soft suede hides with
a pattern painted on the surface that the tannery called 'Navajo' but the
J is pronounced like an H so make sure you
say that right in your head,
Joseph. I mean Hoseph. No, no I don't. Oops.
Printed on your choice of
either dark brown suede or off-white suede.
Hides average about 15 sq
ft each and are 3 oz in thickness, very soft.
Navajo suede cowhides.
Free USA shipping!
Colors
LIZARD SKIN
TEXTURE COWHIDE SIDES YELLOW OR BROWN No, these are not from giant
yellow lizards that live over by the power plant.
Vegetable tanned cowhide
sides run about 20 sq ft on average and are 3 to 3.5 oz,
less than 1/16" thick, and
can be stitched on most home sewing machines.
The leather is vegetable
tanned and then imprinted with the lizard skin pattern you see in the pictures.
Yellow color is a surface
finish put on by a roller coater at the tannery.
No glossy topcoats or other
goop on top of the yellow, so it's a nice, matte look.
The brown ones are a nice,
medium brown color, not shiny at all.
Not too soft, not too firm.
Good leather for making book covers, among other things.
$40 per side includes 48-state
shipping so let's get these things out of here.
Colors
3.5 Oz Veg Tan Tooling
Sides These are cowhide sides,
tanned in bark/vegetable extracts, specifically made for tooling, stamping,
burning (like with a wood burner), and wet-forming.
Sides are larger than
20 square feet each and are just under 1/16" thick (3-3.5 oz leather).
These are B Grade sides
so expect some scratches or holes as shown in the photos.
Priced per side -
with free shipping to any location in the 48 contiguous United States.
Large 3.5 oz Veg Tan Sides
- 20 square feet or larger - $75 each
48-State USA Shipping included!
Fred (of Mountain
Man Leather) likes the way this stuff tools:
GOLD METALLIC FINISH
COWHIDE SIDES Large cowhide sides are
very soft, and were vat dyed nice and black.
After that, old Mr. Tannery
Guy stood back, took a long look, and then he heaved a bucket of gold finish
on them.
'There.' he said.
"Now they'll sell.' Eureka.
These are nice - suitable
for garments or upholstery - would make a heck of a nice space age recliner
for Dad.
These Gold Metallic Sides
are called Midas and run about 19 sq ft per side, 3-3.5 oz in thickness,
and are very soft.
Priced at $70 each, 48-state
shipping included. AK and HI are just a bit more or, we can fold
these to fit in a flat rate box for no extra shipping costs.
Midas Gold Metallic Sides
$70 each, 48 state shipping included
Denim Printed
Cowhide Bends, Navy Bends running 4 to
4.5 oz in thickness (about 1/16") and 10 sq ft each, dyed navy, then imprinted
with a screen print and washed over with white to yield a pattern that
looks, well,
OK it looks weird but it's
got a lot of potential and just begs to be made into chair seats, counter
tops, or a big tall hat
(just roll it into a tube
and staple it together - you're done and you need counseling). Makes
great book covers, among other things.
This leather is a little
more firm than it looks - holds shape pretty well. Hey - nice hat.
Where'd you get that thing?
$25 each or ten for $200
- these prices include 48-state shipping
Qty
Or. flip them over and you've
got:
Navy Suede Bends ZIG-ZAG PATTERN CALF
SIDES, TAN COLOR These calf sides have been
vegetable tanned and then imprinted with a zig-zag fabric pattern, finished
with a nice tan color, and waterproofed. Great for upholstery work
and for projects that need
some texture showing. These are about 4 oz in thickness, but have
a boney temper, so they're not soft like garment leather.
Each side runs about 16
square feet, some as large as 18 square feet. Priced at $40 each,
which includes shipping by UPS to any location in the 48 contiguous United
States.
ZigZag Calf Sides
$40 each
CHECKERBOARD Full cowhide sides of vegetable
tanned leather, slightly oiled, embossed with a checkerboard pattern.
The leather is firm and runs 6 oz in thickness.
Perfect for making a new
bar counter at your vintage diner.
Or, if you can find some
really tiny checkers you could make a few hundred checkerboards from one
of these sides.
Before you play checkers
on this leather though just go ahead and make an appointment with your
eye doctor - you'll need it.
Available in Red/White only
(all other colors have sold out). The 1960s are back, baby.
Sides run about 20 square feet of surface area.
Checkerboard Sides
$65 each
Color
Please note - For
Hides/Sides Under 3 oz in thickness please visit our Thin
Leathers Page
All prices include shipping
in the contiguous USA Click
here to see our Shipping Information page Leather weights are given in ounces
per square foot As a general rule of thumb,
each ounce is = to about 1/64", so 4 oz is 4/64 or 1/16"
For more information about
leather thickness
click
here CLICK
HERE if you only need one piece of leather; our form makes it easy
to buy just what you need! Note: OK, nothing
is really easy around here, but this form is a little easier than pushing
a cat into a bucket which we would only do to save the cat's life in the
event of a barn fire or meteor strike
PONTIAC GREEN FULL CALF
HIDES Remember the 60s?
Vacations were simple. Load the cooler, toss some sleeping bags in
the back of the station wagon, and crawl all over the seats while Dad drove
from your
home to the National Park
of his choosing. You'd play cards while laying down on the floor,
look for license plates while sprawled out on top of the suitcases, and
stick your arm
out the window to let the
wind push your palm up or down. The entire time you were probably
sitting on seats that looked about like this leather. It looks like
it came out of an old Pontiac,
so that's what we called
it. Also, none of us here could figure out the Italian name it was
given by the tannery over there that produced the leather,
so Pontiac is as good a
name as any. Full calf hides run about 30 square feet each, 4 oz,
mellow temper, good for upholstery use or for garments.
Here's an important fact
- this leather sat on a shelf, folded up (not rolled) for a long time,
so it has wrinkles in it.
They'll come out after a
while, but when you open the box be prepared for wrinkles, like when Aunt
Marge shows her knees at the annual beach picnic. Gag.
Pontiac Green Full Calf
Hides $85 each USA shipping included
PERFORATED SIDES These are small or medium
cowhide sides that are perforated on an evenly spaced pattern to allow
the leather to breathe.
The small sides run about
10 square feet of surface area, and are a tan color.
The medium sides run about
15 sq ft and are slightly reddish brown, also perforated. Hate wearing
chaps on those hot, West Texas days over near Marfa?
Had it with your quiver
filling up with water during those heavy South Florida downpours when you're
in your tree stand out at Holy Lands?
Here's your answer.
Holey Leather. This stuff breathes. Priced per side, contiguous USA
shipping included.
If you live in AK or HI
and don't mind us folding the leather we can flat rate this to you (no
extra charge, just pay the prices you see below)
Small Perforated Sides
$30 each, 48 state shipping included
Medium Perforated Sides
$40 each, 48 state shipping included
Size
Third Quality White Deer
Hides These are full white tail
deer hides, from right here in the USA.
Chrome tanned, dyed white
(dye penetrates all the way through the leather)
These measure about 7 square
feet in surface area per hide and are soft.
We're calling these third
quality because, well, they just flat out aren't nice enough to be called
second quality.
Yes, they're useful for
crafts, but the hides have bullet holes, knife cuts, bad spots, rough areas,
defects, abrasions, cuts, bruises, piercings, and bad attitudes.
The leather is 3 oz (a little
under 1/16 of an inch)., Very, very soft.
Yes, these are rough but
each hide has a lot of useful leather.
Free USA shipping
Crummy White Deer Hides
$20 each
or get 3 Crummy White Deer
Hides for $50
or get 25 Crummy White Deer
Hides for $300
or get 100 Crummy White
Deer Hides for $1100
Quantity
You can see more deer hides
in other colors over on our Lightweight
Leathers page
If you'd like to study some
common leather terms or are having trouble falling asleep click
here.
You can sound like an expert
once you learn to sling the lingo.
If learning about leather
thickness gets your heart pumping then click
here.
FISH
LEATHER! Thought you'd seen just
about everything in the world of leather? Well, maybe now you have.
Fish sides, scales removed, chrome-tanned, dyed all the way through, and
softened.
These have a rather rough
surface, left natural from when the scales were removed. A bit shaggy-looking,
but that way everyone can tell you're using fish leather. A very
cool thing to work with.
Thickness wise these run
about 4 oz or 1/16" thick, and are surprisingly sturdy. Tanned in
North America, carp or salmon.
We guess it's a lot like
the cowhide business, except we haven't been able to find any brands on
these hides. Apparently the legendary Carp Roundups will remain just
that - a legend.
Choose your color.
These ship free to all USA locations. Don't worry, we mail them to
you, we don't try to get them to swim it.
Fish hides are $15 each.
These average about 4 inches wide and 16 to 18 inches long.
Carp - Yellow Fish Hides
SOLD OUT!
Carp - Purplish-Blue Fish
Hides $15 each SOLD OUT!
Color
Prices shown above for all
of our fish leathers include shipping costs to any USA location. No need
to add one more cent to your purchase.
Sound fishy to you?
Heck, we've been doing business this way upcountry in Maine for 15 years,
and we're just gettin' stahhhhted.
Lined or Unlined Pig
Hides These were tanned specifically
for covering chair seats. There's a polyurethane (plastic) layer
bonded to the surface,
so these are wear and stain
resistant. Harvest Gold color looks just like those kitchen appliances
you used to own.
in the 1970s. Relive
those great kitchen moments by using these hides to make stuff.
Terra Cotta looks like a
flower pot.
Hides run 3 oz in thickness
(less than 1/16 of an inch) and about 5 square feet of total surface area
(about 2 ft by 2.5 ft).
Mellow temper - all are
priced at $20 each, with free USA shipping.
Colors that are in stock
are listed in the pull down menu:
Color
Lined Pig Skins Lined pig skins also available
- same leather as above, in Harvest Gold or Sienna (whatever Sienna is),
but these have a layer of
cowhide suede or fabric bonded to the back to give the hides more weight.
These run 5 oz in thickness.
$25 each, USA shipping included
Color
WOVEN
LEATHER PANELS Nice calf leather, woven
into ready-to-use panels, in three color choices
Some projects call for a
panel of leather to fit into something like a book cover, a small chair
(for a doll, maybe), or the top of a shoe.
These are true woven panels
made from excellent quality calf leather, available in the three colors
shown above (black or burgundy).
They can be glued or sewn
directly to your project. All prices shown include shipping to any
USA location
Black panels measures about
6.5" by 7" Burgundy panels measure about 6.5" by
7"
Pricing is as shown on the
drop-down menu
Color/Qty
These make great inlays:
Excellent work by Jeremy
Sehorne
Woven Thingamajigs Made to fit across the top
of your foot on a nice loafer, these are made from high quality calf skin
and are actually woven/braided. Each is about eight inches
long and 1.25" wide,
with that hole in the middle
that fits conveniently over your eyes if you want to use these on a mask.
You can also tape one across your mouth
and stick out your tongue
every so often, just to keep things interesting at your next PTA meeting.
Available in burgundy or brown, as shown.
Woven Strips
10 for $12, USA shipping
included
Color/Qty
Heavy Weight Black Splits These are USA cowhide sides,
chromium tanned and dyed all the way through. Suede surface on both
sides, 6 oz in thickness.
Mellow temper, so you can
wear these as a vest or whatever, or make a quiver because the leather
is thick enough to have some body to it.
Most sides will have a brand
on them.
Sold in two sizes:
Small = 10-13 sq ft
$40
Large = Over 13 sq ft
$50
These prices INCLUDE shipping
to any location in the 48 contiguous United States
Size
Light Weight or Thin
Hides Cowhide, Sheep, Deer, Horse,
Goat, Calf Leathers
See them on
the Lightweight
Leathers Page!
Leather weights are given
in ounces per square foot As a general rule of thumb,
each ounce is = to about 1/64", so 4 oz is 4/64 or 1/16"
For more information about
leather thickness click
here Not
finding the leather you want on this page? Try our Clearance
page. OR Are you looking
for some other type of leather, like suede, sheep hides, thin goat skins,
scrap pieces, furs, or something else? You should take
a gander at our Site
Map - it's the menu of all of our choices All
Prices Include USA Shipping for the lower 48! AK
and HI are just a little more - send an
e-mail
to inquire. Or
click
here for more shipping information - APOs, International Shipping,
Express, Overnight, etc. Please
click here to sign up for our newsletters HOW TO PLACE AN ORDER You Have Several Choices:
Mail, Fax, Phone, or Online Shopping Cart
Placing an Order - Choice
#1: We've tried to make this
as easy as possible. Print out this order
form and send it up with a check or with your Visa/Mastercard info
(number and expiration date).
Can't print the form?
No problem, just write your order down on a piece of paper and mail it
in, fax it in, or call it in. You can order leather pieces, laces,
buckles, etc all on one form or piece of paper, just add it all up.
Don't forget your shipping
address (no P.O. Boxes, please, unless your order is going to weigh less
than two pounds). We'll get your order out as soon as possible.
All prices on our site include
shipping charges for locations within the 48 states, and, at Brettuns Village,
we do not charge for handling your order. Just doesn't seem fair!
---
Brettuns Village Leather
P.O. Box 772
Auburn, ME 04212
(207)782-7863
Fax: (207)782-7448 FAX
Placing an Order - Choice
#2 Use your Visa/MasterCard/Amex/Discover
by telephoning your order in
TOLL FREE, ORDERS ONLY:
1-877-LEATHAH (That's how we say it in Maine)
1-877-532-8424
ORDERS ONLY, PLEASE!
---
Placing an Order - Choice
#3 Use our shopping cart system
by clicking the buttons next to each item. When ready to check out,
you'll have the option of paying with a PayPal account or just using your
Visa, MasterCard, American Express, or Discover card.
Questions about shipping?
APO, International, Alaska or Hawaii, overnight or express shipping?
Click
here to visit our Shipping Information page
E-Mail
Us!
Copyright 1994 Brettuns Village All rights reserved Like there's anything here
worth swiping anyway...
